How Much Is Your Mesothelioma Case Worth?

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to tonight's webinar about mesothelioma case value. My name is Sean Marchese. I'm an oncology writer and registered nurse at the mesothelioma center. I've been a panelist on our previous information sessions, and tonight, I'll be your moderator for our webinar on mesothelioma case value. Before we start the presentation this evening, I wanna get started with a few guidelines and tips for tonight's session. Tonight's event is going to be jam packed with information about mesothelioma lawsuits and the legal process, but it's important to remember that every case is unique, which is why nothing you hear tonight should be taken as legal advice. You should always consult with a licensed attorney in the appropriate jurisdiction before any action that may affect your rights. While tonight's speaker has years of experience working with mesothelioma patients and families, we are not your lawyer. In fact, we're not a law firm at all. We're an advocacy organization. If you are looking for additional information about your legal rights after tonight's event, we encourage you to consult with a Musothelium attorney. You may have noticed that your mic is muted. It will remain muted for the remainder of the event, including the q and a session. We do want you to ask questions though. Feel free to submit them at any time through the chat box. And you can do that by clicking the chat icon at the bottom of your screen, type in your question, and click enter on your keyboard or screen if you're on a tablet or phone. Don't worry. Any messages or questions you send are private so only the panelists will see them. And when it gets to the question and answer part, I won't say who submitted each question. We will try to answer every question after the presentation, and we will also send you a recording of the presentation in a few days, so don't feel like you need to write everything down. Now I'm excited to introduce tonight's speaker, Joe Joe Lahav. Joe joined the mesothelioma center in two thousand nine as a lawyer and a legal advisor. He graduated with honors from the University of Florida College of Law in two thousand with a Juris Doctorate. Joe is currently licensed to practice law in Florida and Washington DC. In addition to working as a licensed attorney, Joe also served as a patient advocate at the mesothelioma center. As an advocate, he's helped mesothelioma patients and their families navigate the complexities of a rare cancer diagnosis. His goal is to ensure each patient had access to top medical, legal, and support resources. With over a decade of experience, he understands the ins and outs of mesothelioma claims and works to make sure that patients and loved ones get the help they deserve. Joe, thank you for being here tonight. Thanks, Sean. Happy to be here. Looking forward to it. Alright. Let's jump in. So the biggest question we tend to get is how much can I realistically expect to get from a mesothelioma case? Right. This is the one that I probably dealt with the most as well, when I was an advocate. And, unfortunately, this is not one that I can answer easily. It's very difficult to say it's impacted by many factors, and we'll talk about the factors, as the webinar proceeds. I'll go through a few quick ones right now. Direct versus indirect exposure. Direct exposure is if you're the person that was exposed to the asbestos. Indirect was, were you exposed to asbestos through somebody else? People with direct exposure typically can get a little bit more because it's a little bit easier to prove their case. Another one is, are the defendants viable? And by viable, I mean, are they not bankrupt? Bankrupt defendants are people that have set up trust funds. Typically, you get a little bit less, if the defendants are bankrupt than you would if they're viable. And we'll talk a little bit more about that as well. Additionally, the severity of the illness. This is pretty common sense. The sicker you are, probably the more you're gonna get. You have mesothelioma versus a lung cancer. That's one big thing. Asbestosis would be something a little bit further down the line. Obviously, with mesothelioma, you get the most because, unfortunately, it is the most deadly. Finally, treatment costs, pretty self explanatory as well, and we'll get into that as the rest of the webinar progresses. Right. So it sounds like there's a lot of factors that impact how much you can get from an easily on the case, and I believe you went over, some of these already. Are there any other factors that you can think of that could impact case value? Right. When we're talking about we talked about those on the prior slide. And and, additionally, there's these which we bullet bullet pointed. Expenses and losses related to the illness, Basically, how much is this whole thing costing you? And there's some additional non economic things as well. And we'll talk about that as well as as this progresses. The type of claim, really, is this a wrongful death, or are you the living person bringing the claim? If it's a wrongful death, you typically get a little bit less, because the plaintiff has died the main plaintiff has died. And there are some aspects of the claim that died with with him or her. Is it a mesothelium or a lung cancer? Again, as we just discussed, mesotheliums can get a little bit more, the lung cancers because lung cancers are not as directly tied to to asbestos exposure and aren't quite as deadly. The statute of limitations, I'll just describe briefly what that is. It's a time period that you have to bring the claim. In in mesothelioma cases, it starts to run from the time you were diagnosed. It's typically between one and four years, depends on the state. Outside of the statute of limitations, you may have no criminal. The location, we refer to that in legal parlance as jurisdiction, and it says it right here. Frankly, some places are just better to bring a claim than others, and we'll talk about that as well. Evidence of asbestos exposure. Do you have more than one defendant? Obviously, more defendants means that you've got more pockets you could potentially collect from. And if you know that you've got clear asbestos exposure, stronger evidence, and you can prove your case up more strongly, obviously, the defendants are more likely to to give you a little bit more money, because they're more likely to lose if they have to go to trial. And then finally, attorney quality. This one's very self explanatory, but we'll talk about some things to look for in attorneys and some things to avoid in attorneys a little bit later in the webinar. Good to know. So expenses and losses, the first one listed here. Can you go into a little bit more detail about what they might expect from that? Right. These are these are things that affected you financially as a result of your disease, and they're bullet pointed here. Medical bills. This is what is this costing you? And keep in mind that insurance should not be taken into consideration. In other words, what are your what are your medical expenses? Transportation costs. This is really not like driving around your city. This is transportation costs to and from a treatment facility. And the reason why this one's important is because, frankly, there aren't that many asbestos specialists, doctors out there. Mesothelioma doctors are rare. Surgeons that handle this kind of stuff, pretty rare. And that's because it's a it's frankly, it's just a rare disease. Not too long ago, I remember that we had a patient that was living in Alaska, and that particular person was having to fly all the way to Boston to get treatment. They were having to go multiple times a year, sometimes times a month. Obviously, that can can become fairly costly. So you wanna make sure you you track that. Lost wages is, are you out of work? And a lot of a lot of people that we deal with, frankly, here are retired, and they're not working anymore. So that wouldn't be an element of your claim if you're a retiree. However, if you're still working and you're losing money because you're unable to work, you wanna make sure you track that. Home health care, is things like, people come into your house to help you set up, you know, a bed. Are nurses coming to your house? Are is food being delivered to you? Those types of things. And they they those can also get fairly expensive, so you're gonna wanna track that. Complimentary therapies, things like breathing exercises, yoga, people might think it's a little hokey, but a lot of people do this, and it can be helpful. And, again, it can get costly. So you wanna make sure you track all of those. One thing that's not mentioned here as well and there's several of these. This is not an ex an exhaustive list. But one thing also, that is not mentioned here that's coming to mind is something called loss of consortium. This is your loss of your ability to be intimate with your partner. You wanna wanna make sure that you keep track of all of these things and discuss them with your attorney because, obviously, this is gonna change your life. And the more it changes your life means the more that you can collect as a result. Yeah. It's extremely important to track these expenses like you mentioned. Another factor that could impact case value, is the difference, between the type of claim you file. Can you explain some of the key differences between trials, settlements, and trust fund claims? Yeah. And first, let me explain briefly what these are. Trials are exactly what you what you think of if you've ever watched Perry Mason, Law and Order, LA Law. It's going to court. It takes a long time to get there, but once you go to court, you're typically in front of a judge and and a jury as well, typically, although not always. And, and that process takes a long time, but you're giving, you know, testimony at trial, and the defendants are testifying as well. So there's, a long way down the road that that happens. Settlements are exactly what you've what you would think they are. This is somebody offering you a sum of money so that they can avoid trial because trial can be risky. And to avoid the risk and to give yourself some certainty, people offer you money to settle the claim prior to trial, typically. Sometimes it can be at trial. Maybe it's on the trial steps. And sometimes it's even after trial, but that's what that is. And then trust fund claims, we talked a little bit before, about companies that have declared bankruptcy and set up trust funds. Basically, what happened was back in the seventies and eighties, when it started coming out how dangerous asbestos was, a lot of people, that had manufactured asbestos containing products, a lot of companies, decided, hey. Look. I don't wanna get popped with a lot of lawsuits. They were terrified of the of the potential claims that were gonna be made against them. So they decided to file for bankruptcy, and the court system said, hey. Look. No problem. You can avail yourself of the bankruptcy system. However, we don't want to leave the people that have been made sick as a result of the products that you manufactured holding the bag without no method to recover. So, of course, you have to to set up these trust funds to give the the plaintiff some method of recovering from you. And those typically pay a little bit less than than you would normally get, but those are from bankrupt, defendants. And some of the main differences are the timeline. Again, trials take longer, and we'll talk a little bit about that, as the webinar goes forward as well. Trials take a little bit longer. Settlements will come in, all throughout the whole process. They might immediately start coming in, and you might get them, again, all the way the settlement offers all the way, at trial and maybe even sometimes after trial as soon as the verdict comes in. Someone says, hey. Look. I don't wanna pay that much. I'll settle for this much. And then trust fund claims are administrative. So you're filing some paperwork against these bankruptcy trust. That's through the the US bankruptcy courts. And those can start coming in, as quickly as a few months. Sometimes it can take longer than that. The process is a little different as well. Again, with trust, it's largely administrative, filing paperwork. With settlements, it's just, hey. Somebody's offering you something. And then at trial, obviously, it's the whole nine. You know? Going through discovery, potentially depositions, giving testimony at trial, a much longer time line, but a much higher upside potentially. And you also have the the the potential of appeal, if somebody doesn't like the result of the trial. The potential award is different as well. You have a much higher upside if you get a trial verdict, but there's more certainty with settlement claims and trust fund claims. So sometimes people don't wanna go to trial because, again, it's risky. But the defendants know that as well. So so they often don't like trial, and we'll and we'll try to settle. And the majority of claims are settled, in mesothelioma. And then finally, trust fund claims, again, pays a percentage of what they think your claim is worth. So it's less, but more certainty there. It's important to to understand that you don't have to necessarily go to trial. So talk to your lawyer about what you think is the best way to go forward. They'll give you the best advice possible. Thanks, Joe. You you briefly mentioned, timelines of trials, and we definitely get a lot of questions about what someone's timeline may look like when they're, filing a case. Can you go over the details of what a timeline of a mesothelioma lawsuit might look like, and how long a case usually takes? Yeah. Yeah. Again, once you file the claim, typically, if there's bankruptcy trust, those those start to get filed immediately. And often, they start coming in, from numerous bankrupt defendants, usually as as soon as as six months. Sometimes it could be a little bit sooner, but usually six months is a is a is a safe bet. Settlements will come in throughout the whole process as I mentioned before. Defendants might make it a settlement offer immediately. Oftentimes, they'll wait till they kinda understand a little bit more about how strong your case is so that they can gauge what they need to pay you. That may be, again, at trial even. Trial can take years. Certainly now, we're we're still kind of somewhat going through the pandemic. So courts have closed to some extent. They're starting to open, but they've closed down. So that slows things down. So it might take a few years to get to trial. It it also depends on how busy the jurisdiction you file is. So the next big question then, does the amount of time a lawsuit take impact how much I can get? Typically, it wouldn't, but it can. It can. And one of the big reasons why it can is because, if it takes a long time, unfortunately, sometimes plaintiffs passed away during the pendency of of the case. So if you're if you're looking at a a trial that is potentially gonna be two, three, four years down the road, somebody might pass away during that time. And, unfortunately, again, if somebody passes away, a lot of times, some elements of the claim pass away. For example, if you're if you're deceased, you don't have ongoing medical expenses that you claim for. Right? They they die with you. That's a big element of your case. So that kind of thing dies with the plaintiff. So, it can affect it, doesn't have to. You mentioned earlier about, the factors that impact whether you choose to settle or go to trial. How can someone kind of go through that process? You know, someone might ask, do I need to go to trial? The answer to that one is is just frankly, no. You don't have to. It's un it's understandable. A lot of people, again, know it's risky. They're going through treatment, whether it's a lung cancer, sometimes they don't want it in the trial. But, you should really talk to your attorney because you you you stand to leave some money, potentially a lot of money on the table because some defendants simply will not settle with you. They're going to force you to go to trial. Doesn't happen often, but some of them some of them will hold out. They wanna really see that you're serious about the case. So you potentially are leaving a lot of money on the table if you don't go to trial. Are there other benefits to going to trial? Another frequent question we get is why would I choose to go to trial if I can settle? Again, you've got a higher ceiling, so your potential award is really, really significantly enhanced if you go to trial. But one thing that I think that, may be kind of underappreciated is that when people settle, sometimes it it doesn't feel as good as going to trial because sometimes people just wanna get their pound of flesh. They really want their sense of justice out of the whole process. And and and we deal with a lot of people, frankly, that say to me, hey, Joe. I've got plenty of money. I don't this isn't this isn't a money issue for me. So how are you gonna get a sense of justice out of this? This did not need to happen to you. You didn't need to get sick as a result of this. The the defendants knew they were making you sick with these vestibes that they were manufacturing. This is this is proven in the in the documents that that the lawyers have. They knew that this was making many people sick, but they didn't say anything about it. So it didn't have to happen to you. So to get a sense of justice, sometimes people feel like they need to go to trial. And speaking of Oh, sorry. No no worries. Again, it's important, though, that the majority claims, however, are settled prior to trial. For sure. And speaking of a sense of justice, you mentioned earlier that the patient can pass away during the trial process, and, that's another big question we get. What what happens to the case if that happens? Right. If the patient passes away during the during the trial process, typically, the claim then is converted to something called a wrongful death claim. And a wrongful death claim becomes an asset of your estate, and it's managed, the wrongful death claim, by an estate representative. And the estate representative is typically a surviving spouse, sometimes a single child. Doesn't have to be. But then they dictate kinda how the claim proceeds at that point. It doesn't affect the process too much at that point. Again, you can go to trial. You can receive settlements. You can make trust fund claims. It's a little harder, obviously, to prove up the claim, but the process is fairly similar. However, again, as I mentioned before, it can affect case value because some elements of the claim die with the deceased plaintiff. Again, medical continuing medical cost was one that that, that I brought up. But, again, the process is fairly similar. It shouldn't change too much. And, your family, or whoever you designate in the will, for instance, can still get a lot of a lot of compensation as a result of this if you have the dietary dependency of the case. Now it sounds like there are a lot of variables that can affect this this, case timeline. So, how would I know when the best time to file a claim is? Typically, I tell people, who ask this question that the sooner you start, the better. And they and and they're like, you know, why why would I wanna start? Shouldn't I focus on my my medical attention first? Obviously, you wanna focus on your medical attention. That's the most important thing here. But that doesn't preclude you from going forward and talking to an attorney and filing and going forward. And the reason why I say, to go forward as soon as possible is really twofold. One, you've got a potential statute of limitations of learning. So if you wait too long, you're potentially gonna end up outside of your statute of limitations. Again, it's between one and four years. Typically, it might be a little bit different. So you don't and and you could be left with with no claim whatsoever if you're outside the statute. And then two, and this is something that I think people don't really necessarily Once you start medical treatment, you can lose energy. The treatments can can be debilitating, Fran. Chemotherapy can affect your energy levels. It can affect your memory. Obviously, your memory is the best thing that you have to prove up your claim. So if you can get going sooner than later, it's obviously gonna make it a lot easier for your attorney to to to work up your case, and present a strong case on your behalf. Yeah. You make a really good point. The people going through this process are also, you know, getting severe medical care, for the debilitating disease that is mesothelioma. So a lot of people ask, you know, are there ways that I can balance or manage both my medical and legal needs at the same time? Do you have some advice for them? Yes. Obviously, again, as I mentioned before, the biggest thing for a person is to focus on your on your medical needs. That much being said, it's important to understand that lawyers, judges, especially in these opinions, understand that plaintiffs are sick and sometimes very sick. And they try to make it as easy as possible for you. That might mean doing meetings via Zoom like this, you know, FaceTiming, so that you don't have to travel a lot. Sometimes the the courts can speed up the trial process, and these are the only one of the cases. They can expedite your claims. So there's some things that are available to you to make it go faster so that that the the disease doesn't affect you too much during the during the pendency of the of the of the case. Yeah. You mentioned the need to travel. A lot of patients travel for specific treatments or clinical trials. Will they need to travel for their attorney meetings as well? Typically not. Again, now with the technology that we've got, you can meet via Zoom, FaceTime, telephone. There's lots of options available. So, so you don't have to travel. That doesn't mean you won't have to ever travel, but, typically, those those travel times can be limited, pretty much to a few times during the pendency of your case. That's good to hear. And about how often will I need to meet with my attorney? There's gonna be some frequency to it. But, again, you can do it over the phone. You gotta understand that they need to understand what your work history was, what type of asbestos products you were exposed to, some of your family situation. You know? Were you exposed through a father who may have worked in the trades? That kind of stuff. So they're gonna need to talk to you, work up your case. Obviously, the defendants are gonna have a chance to to ask you questions as well, so you're gonna have to meet with them. And, certainly, there's gonna be some some court deadlines that are are gonna be, things that you need to live up to. For instance, if there's a deposition and they can't do it via video, you're gonna have to make that, you're gonna have to make that date. But it's not typically a ton, again, because they understand people are very sick. Yeah. And, you know, things unexpected issues happen all the time with mesothelioma. If a patient needs to delay a meeting with their attorney, can they do that? Yes. Not always, but most of the time. Again, for for, you know, trying not to be the dead horse here, but the attorneys understand that you're very sick and that sometimes either just don't have the energy or you've got, to go to a medical appointment, and they're not gonna be too too tough on you on that. Now try, obviously, to to limit that, but, typically, nothing's set in stone. Obviously, there are gonna be few core dates that are set in stone, but those are gonna be few and far between. So if you need to delay something, no one's gonna come down on you too hard about it. We talked about traveling a little bit. Another big question we get is how does location impact my case value? Right. Right. And location is what we refer to in legal parlance as jurisdiction. And it it can be affected or it can affect the strength of your claim. Frankly, as it as it mentions here, you may be able to file a lawsuit outside of the state that that you live in, and some places are just gonna be gonna be better than others. You've got typically some options here. Talk to your attorney about this because they'll walk you through it. But usually, there's there's a few options. One would be, naturally, where do you live? Typically, you can file a state, that you live in. Two, where are the defendant's headquarter? You know, you can typically file where the defendants are headquartered, where they're basically domiciled. Three, another option may be where your exposure primarily. We have a lot of people, for instance, here in Florida that are retirees. They might have been exposed in New York or up north where there was a lot of trades. They come down here. But they can often file where where the exposure, primarily occurred. And we talk about some some key states for asbestos litigation here. One thing I think that people will recognize is that all these are are pretty big states, not from a geographical standing, but from a population standing. And why are they key states? Really, it's because these are places that had a lot of asbestos usage. Shipbuilding, navy yards, a lot of trade. For instance, Pennsylvania had steel, being manufactured. Obviously, asbestos is a huge insulin, so it was used in a lot of trades. Texas with the oil and gas. New York with the with the Navy yards and tons of tradesmen. So those are the key states for for asbestos litigation. That much being said, just because you don't happen to live in one of these states does not mean you do not have an excellent an excellent case. Right. It it sounds like where you were exposed is definitely a big factor, but why would someone wanna file in a different state? There's there's a tip a couple typical reasons. One is, frankly, that some states may not allow certain elements that other states, permit when you're making a claim. For instance, California just now passed a law that allowed, for pain and suffering. I don't even know if it's gone into effect yet. I think it may go into effect, starting in twenty twenty two. So beforehand, you couldn't even file for pain and suffering. That was not an element of your claim in California prior to. And the other one is, frankly, some states just are not very plaintiff friendly. They don't look at trial lawyers particularly, favorably. They've got bad reputations in some states. And the the juries typically don't award much there. So you wanna try to find a jurisdiction that is gonna be most favorable to you. Your lawyers will walk you through what your options are. They're not unlimited. But, usually, there's more than one, and, typically, a good jurisdiction can be found. So we talked about how important it is knowing where you were exposed, but a lot of people also ask how they can determine, how they were exposed to asbestos, and that's a big part of the case. Right. This is called proving up your claim, and it's not as difficult as people would think. Typically, what happens is, an investigator will come, and they'll kinda walk you through your exposure history. They'll ask you, you know, where were you exposed? What job sites did you work at? And as a part of this, oftentimes, they will present you with what is in this bullet point here referred to as product identification tools. And, usually, what that means is it's a big book. You've got a big binder, and it walks through, hey. Look. You know, these are lots of different products that contain asbestos. Sometimes people don't even realize products that they that they worked with when they were working as a plumber or a pipe fitter, or at a at a, you know, a navy yard contained asbestos. And they'll say, oh, you know what? I recognize yeah. I worked with that kinda gasket, or I work with that kinda insulin. Oh, I didn't realize it had asbestos in it. So you'll be looking through the binder, and the the the investigator will be helping you and kinda walking you through it. That's a product identification tool. Good lawyers also will have, records of job sites, all kinds of job sites all over the United States where asbestos was heavily used. Again, you might not necessarily know if you worked at a particular factory, that asbestos was in the ceiling or asbestos was in the pipes or, you know, the in lagging, whatever it may have been. But the lawyers will know that. The good ones will know. So they'll help you understand that. And then, obviously, your memory is is a piece. Sometimes people do remember. You know, we get you'll get a lot of plumbers that know immediately, hey. I worked with this or, you know, you get navy guys. You know? I I used to sleep below decks, and the pipes, were covered in asbestos, and and and it was raining down on me when I slept. So your own memory and if you can't remember, people that work with you, you can get coworkers. And assuming that they can be found, they can help you remember. That's another way that's that's proved up. I imagine some of these factors might be missing. For some people, they might be harder to find. Like, records might not be available or witnesses might not be available. What happens if the asbestos exposure is hard to prove? Right. People get this a lot. The lawyers that work in asbestos, the ones that have decades of experience, typically don't have a very, very difficult time figuring out relatively quickly how you were exposed. I'm not gonna say that it never happens, but it's a very infrequent situation where somebody can't figure out, relatively quickly how they were exposed. But every once in a while, it does happen. And then there are occasionally, there's other options. Like, for instance, I think people have been hearing a lot about talc, talcum powder. We'll talk about that. There you go. You got to the next slide. I was gonna say we'll talk about that in the next slide. But there are some nontypical ways that people were exposed. And, again, if you got a good attorney, they'll understand very, very quickly that, you know, this may be a better route to take in in going forward with your case. Yeah. Some people might not be aware that talcum powder, had contained asbestos, traces and might not know that it has caused cancer. Can you go over a little bit about how talcum powder can cause cancer? Yeah. Yeah. Frankly, this one is it's kinda strange, but, pretty simple to explain. The talcum powder back in the day, had bits of it small trace amounts of asbestos in it. And people are like, how could that possibly happen? Well, frankly, maybe you don't know, but talk his mind, just like asbestos' mind. And in nature, typically, they're occurring together. And when they're when you're mining talc, there's just little bits of asbestos as well. It's they're they're minerals that that just got interspersed, and it's very hard to separate the the asbestos from the talc. If someone's filing a claim based on exposure to asbestos, in talc, how how would that process work? Right. This would be a claim against the talcum powder manufacturers. You know, in this third bullet here under this FAQ, we talk about Johnson and Johnson baby powder, j and j baby powder. It did have, asbestos in it. You would bring a claim against Johnson and Johnson and another company that that produced some of the stuff called Emerus. And and and that's how it would go forward. The the issue here, and I think some people if you've watched some some news, you might have heard about it, is Johnson and Johnson, who's one of the big defendants when it comes to talc. Not the only one. There's potentially other ones. But one of the big defendants when it comes to to to the talc lawsuits, recently transferred all their top liabilities onto a sister company that then subsequently filed for bankruptcy. That doesn't mean that if you were exposed through j and j tal that you can't make a claim. It just means that they're gonna have to wind through that bankruptcy process that we talked about. And then once they kinda get through bankruptcy, typically, there's gonna be a trust, and you'll be able to make a claim against against the the the trust that has these liabilities. Great. So you pretty much answered the second part of this next bullet here of what the process would look like for filing against Johnson and Johnson. But how much would a talc related mesothelioma case be worth? They it can be significant. It can be significant. You know, you're hearing of of people getting, you know, seven figure, verdicts. It's not uncommon. That much being said, now that they're going through bankruptcy, as we discussed, it will, at least with respect to Johnson and Johnson, diminish the amount that you're gonna get. Typically, it's gonna be a percentage of of whatever they think the claim is worth. So say, you know, they they say, you know, this is a a million dollar claim. They're gonna give you maybe ten percent of that. So a hundred thousand dollars, that's typically how that works. It will diminish it, but you obviously can can recover still, from a from a bankrupt defendant. And then we have some questions here about secondary as best of, exposure or secondhand as best as exposure. If someone's not familiar with that term, that's, basically getting asbestos exposure from someone else who was working with asbestos or is carrying asbestos on them, either on their clothes or their hair. And that we can see that with talc as well. How can you prove secondary asbestos exposure? Typically, it's it's it's proven by talking to the person that brought the the asbestos home. So a lot of times, to use an example that that we that we typically get, we'll deal with a wife, and she says, hey. Look. I never worked around any asbestos. You know, how did this possibly happen to me? How did I get these? Well, you know, did did your father happen to work around asbestos when when you were a kid? Did your husband happen to work, around any type of asbestos? And if so, what did you do to come in into contact, with that asbestos? But, you know, we we deal with lives, obviously. They say, no. Look. I I without my husband, I've washed clothes around the house. That may be one way that you got sick. Again, that's talking to the person that was directly exposed. We had a case not too long ago that was very, very unfortunate. A granddaughter used to sit with her grandfather. Her grandfather worked in a mill that had a lot of asbestos, and they would share sandwiches when he would come home from work. And she would eat, you know, eat the sandwiches, not realizing there was asbestos getting on the sandwiches, little asbestos fibers, and she developed peritoneal mesopone as a result of ingesting the asbestos fibers. Again, that's typically proved up by the attorneys. They'll talk to you. They'll kinda understand, and then they'll talk to the person that was primarily exposed and and and get some more information on the products that person worked for. And are these mesothelioma cases that are caused by secondary asbestos exposure worth less than others? Typically, they're a a little bit less, but they don't have to be. And a a very good example is very, very recently, we had a patient who was a secondary exposure through her father. This particular patient, was from South Carolina. Her father was deceased, so it was a hard one to prove. But the lawyers, that that we recommended, frankly, here at asbestos dot com worked really hard with this patient, figured out the exposure. In this case, ended up going to trial. And I think it was because the the defendants were thinking to themselves, you know, this is this is one that they're gonna have a tough time proving up. In that particular case, however, the jury awarded a thirty million dollar verdict. So a very, very sizable verdict. So these don't have to be, less, compensable than than a direct exposure. Well, it sounds like working with a good mesothelioma attorney is essential to building a good case. What are some of the qualities of top mesothelioma attorneys that people should be on the lookout for? That was a that was a great segue into this into this slide, Sean. Thank you. Thanks. Yeah. And and we bullet point them, obviously, here. And I'm not gonna go into all all of these. Free case review, obviously, somebody's gotta come out and and, you know, be able to talk to you for free. If they charge you to come out and talk to you about your case, that's not somebody that you wanna work with. Track record of success. This is a a huge one. Do they have success at trial? Decades of experience. You don't want somebody that says, you know, look. I've I've done a ton of these, and everything they've done is a settlement. You want people to have some trial experience. Nationwide, availability, that's jurisdictional flexibility we talked about, ability to file. In several different jurisdictions, good communication skills, speaks for itself. Accesses to bad databases, that's the product identification tools. Big booklets that we talked about earlier. Are they knowledgeable about compensation? In other words, do they have the ability not just to go to trial, but do they have the ability to file, against the trusts and that kind of thing? One big thing that's not mentioned here that I think is super important is comfort level. You're gonna be working with your lawyer, speaking with them on the phone. They're gonna get to know your family. They're gonna really dig in. And, again, this this process can take sometimes years to go all the way through. You need to make sure that you're very comfortable with the person that you're working with. They're gonna be your partner in this in this in this fight, so make sure that you're comfortable with them. And, again, the the reminder on the bottom, the single most important thing that you can do to maximize your recovery is speak with a qualified attorney. That's one of the things that your patient advocates at asbestos dot com can help you with. They can recommend attorneys who work with a lot of great ones, people that we know have a lot of experience, people that we know are compassionate, people that we know have, have gotten big verdicts and a lot of success. So make sure you talk to somebody that's got a lot of those qualities, and you'll be good. Now when you're checking for these qualities for a good attorney, it almost sounds like you'd wanna speak with multiple attorneys. Right? So maybe selecting the right Museo Filiamo lawyer involves, talking with several law firms. Is that right? And Yeah. Obviously, if you if you call a patient advocate here at asbestos dot com and you talk with we've already kinda done through the done a lot of the vetting process for you. That doesn't mean to say if you wanna say, hey. Look. I wanna talk to multiple people that we won't we won't put you in touch with multiple attorneys. If you're doing this on your own, yes. Talk to several attorneys. Use this, these guidelines to kind of, walk you through what what qualities that you want. But you don't have to you don't have to usually typically, talk to hundreds of them. You know? Talk to two, three, maybe four, and you'll get a pretty good idea of of who you feel comfortable with and who's got a good track record of success. And this is a great question right here. What should I avoid in an attorney? The the the biggest thing that I would say would be something to avoid would be big promises. You never wanna get, to go forward with an attorney that comes out immediately and says, hey. You know, Joe, your case is worth tens of millions of dollars. If they don't know much about your case and they're making big promises, you know, send them packing. That's not somebody that you should work with because they're making big promises just to get you to sign on the dotted line. They don't know anything about your case. There's absolutely no way. They can they can say that they'll get you millions or sometimes multiples of millions of dollars. We pretty much went over this next one, and it sounds like it's a good idea to definitely interview multiple firms before you make a decision. Is that right, Joe? Yeah. Again, if you talk to to your patient advocates here, they'll they'll typically understand a little bit about what's going on, and they can make a good recommendation. But even if you don't work with us, and you wanna do your own work, yeah, talk to a few, but you don't need to talk to, you know, to twenty or thirty. Usually, three, four is is plenty to get a good idea of who's good. And when you're talking to them, we have a list of example questions here that can kind of help you determine if they're gonna be a good attorney for you. Because, again, like Joe mentioned, good communication is key, and they need to have all of those factors that you're looking for in an mesothelioma attorneys. And, this list of questions too will also go out with the recap email later this week, so there's no need to write them down. Right. And there's just a couple I wanna I wanna just bring up. One is, will you have to to pay out of pocket legal expenses? Again, you wanna work with an attorney that works on contingency fee, which means that if they don't recover anything for you, they don't make anything. So they're basically covering your your legal fees and expenses until, there's a recovery there. So, those are a couple things to be really, really wary of. If anyone says, you know, look. I'll you know, pay me by the hour. That's not typically how any of the good attorneys are gonna work in these situations, so don't don't work with those attorneys. And then the next logical question would be what happens after you select your attorney? Right. And and you can see from from these bullet bullets here, the first situation the first step will be you'll get to know your attorney. Your attorney will start working up your case. This is, typically called the discovery period. And what happens is is, you know, you you kinda go on the record sometimes in in a sworn statement called affidavits, and you're saying, look. This is how I was exposed. These are the products I worked around. These are job sites I worked out. The defendants will also have attorneys. The the manufacturers of these best products, whom you're suing will will also have attorneys. Those attorneys will also get to ask you questions. Typically, a kind of a situation where you sit down and you're exposed to questions from the opposing, people is called the deposition. It's done under oath, and you sit down in a room, and they're asking you questions, and it's kinda it's all going on the record, and your attorney will also potentially depose, the defendants as well. And all this will kinda go into building up your case. Even prior to this, you're you're you're determining who the defendants are. And then once you've kinda got a good overview of of what your case is gonna look like, is it a strong case? Do you have a lot of defendants here? You know? Did the depositions go well? You can start determining whether you wanna settle. And, again, it won't be just your determination, but people will be offering these settlements. Defendants will be offering them to you throughout the process. And do I do I wanna go to trial? Again, most of these cases don't go to trial. It's pretty rare to go to trial, but you can go if you really want to go to trial. And some defendants will not settle with you unless you go to trial. So you're making these determinations as you're proving up the case. That all happens after you select your. And after the trial or after a settlement, if you've been awarded compensation, a lot of people ask, how is that compensation paid out? Right. This is this is a a question that we get a lot because people need the money, sometimes rather quickly. The money will get paid out to you over time. Again, the trust funds, assuming that you've got bankrupt defendants and you're filing against a bankruptcy trust, the trust fund, you you submit the the claim paperwork, and, you know, you can start seeing those checks, within a few months. They won't all come in at one time. Typically, you're gonna be filing against multiple trusts, and those will be coming in periodically. Same thing with settlements. People are gonna be settling with you throughout the the process. It may, again, take all the way to trial, but you may get some settlements immediately, some settlement offers immediately. And you could decide whether you wanna take that money now or whether you wanna wait, and potentially get a higher settlement. So that will be paying out, throughout the process. And then assuming that there's still some defendants left, that you go to trial, you've you've gotta wait till verdict unless it's settled beforehand. And once the verdict comes out, then they'll pay after that. But it's it it you know, again, it will start within a few months, and it could take years to to see the last the last penny, from your case. How much should someone expect, will be taken out, for legal fees by the attorney? Alright. Again, assuming you're working with a an attorney that's working on a contingency fee basis, again, somebody that is taking a percentage of what's collected rather than charging you by the hour and, you know, again, wanna work with anyone that's charging you by the hour. But assuming that you're working, with a contingency fee attorney, it's typically between thirty three and third and forty five percent, of whatever they collect for you is what their their fee is. Now to some people, that's gonna sound like an astronomical amount, But you have to understand that the attorney prior to that is taking all the risk. They're, you know, they're paying, you know, your your filing fees, a lot of the costs. They're flying out to meet you a lot of times. There's a lot of costs. And if they don't recover anything for you, they're not getting anything. So there's a lot of risk involved. So the the percentages that they charge typically represent the amount of risk that they take. But, usually, again, between thirty three and a third and forty five percent, and it can often be in between somewhere. And then are there any tax implications? If I get a reward that's a large sum, will that put me in a higher tax bracket, for example? Right. Typically, no. Settlements, typically not, affected by taxes. Verdict's typically not affected by taxes. That's not to say that there aren't any elements of the claim at all that may be taxable. A big one that is taxable, typically, is something called punitive damages. And punitive damages, is a legal term, but, basically, it's something to punish the defendant. It's not something to compensate you for your illness. It's not something to compensate you, or your family because you got lost wages or something like that. It's to say, hey. Look. Defendant, you did something so egregious, so awful. We're going to punish you. And those are pretty rare, but they can happen. And that element will be will be taxable. And, again, there's some things like that, but, typically, verdicts and settlements, the ones that are are are to compensate you for lost wages, medical expenses, that kind of stuff, there aren't gonna be any tax implications for that. So like you mentioned, lost wages, medical expenses. What else can that compensation be used for? This is this is an interesting question, and we we we bullet here a few things, treatment, travel expenses, caregiver therapy, and, like, planning, funeral expenses. But the real answer here is anything. No one's really limiting you once you collect a settlement or a verdict award or something like that. No one's really saying, hey. Look. You can all use it for this. You can use it for just about anything. And to give you just, again, a couple of examples, we sometimes have dealt with people that say, hey. Look. I don't really need this money. You know? I you know, I my insurance covered a lot. You know? I've got a a ton of money set aside for my family. And they say, you know, why why would I go forward? What do I why do I need this money? Well, you know what you can use this money for? You can give it to charity. You can do just about anything you want with it. So, this is obviously not not an exhaustive list. There's really no limits on what you can use your compensation. Now we talked a while ago about the fact that cases can take a long time, sometimes years. So a big question we get is how can I get financial assistance before my lawsuit ends? Right. There's there's several things that that are available to you. And, again, the wonderful patient advocates at asbestos dot com, the Museo deliomy center, can kinda walk you through some of these things. Treatment and travel grants. Sometimes there's travel assistance options that you can get that pay for your travel. Again, You might not be very, very near a a mesothelinoma specialist. You might have to travel to another state even. So travel assistance can can can be helpful. Prescription and co pay assistance, I think a lot of people know about VA claims. Our veterans director, Erin Munz, can walk you through that. But, assuming you were, more than fifty percent, exposed in the military, in other words, fifty one percent of your exposure was through your time in the military. Forty nine percent was through your, civilian, time or more, you can get VA awards, Social Security disability payments. This is assuming you're not already collecting Social Security retirement, and there's a program within Social Security called the compassion allowance program that expedites, your ability to collect your Social Security disability because that can often be a months long process. But if you've got certain types of mesothelioma, you can get bumped up to the head of the line, so you're not waiting all those many months to get your your disability. That's pericardial, plural, and peritoneal mesothelioma are available are available to get within the compassion allowance program. Clinical trials, are paid. Typically, they're in conjunction with your normal treatment, so it's not like you're doing something completely off the wall in a clinical trial, and those are typically fully covered. And then there are other things that that are available to you. I think if you watch TV, you can see that some there are some organizations that will give you loans against potential awards. That's not something that I typically recommend. But if you're very, very desperate in need of money, there are organizations that that, will give you a loan against your potential reward, and and and we'll help you that way. Alright. We're gonna move on to our last slide here before the question and answer portion, and these are some next steps on how to file a mesothelioma lawsuit. Alright. And and I think that these are are fairly self explanatory. One, make sure that you choose a a qualified attorney. Again, that's something that we'll help with here. Call us up at at the mesothelioma center. We can put you in touch with people that we know are qualified. But, again, if you wanna do your own homework, totally understand it, talk to friends, talk to family, use this the slides that you see here, to kinda help you understand some of the things that you wanna look for in a qualified attorney. And then you gotta, you know, review your case, work it up, and and you'll get a a pretty quick feeling, especially from your attorney, how strong your case is. Then determine whether you wanna move for settlement, whether you think, you know, you just wanna go with a trust fund only claim. That is available to you if you want. I wouldn't recommend only filing against the trust because you're leaving a lot of money potentially on the table, but sometimes that's the way that people wanna go. And then file lawsuit typically follows before this, but then, really, you could potentially enter the enter the trial process, meaning the depositions, going all the way through to trial and getting a verdict. So that's typically the steps, in proceeding with your lawsuit. Alright. Thank you so much, Joe. That was super informative, and I know I learned a lot. We've already received quite a few questions, and I see a few more coming in. So for for everyone in the audience, please keep them coming. Just click the chat icon, type in your question, and click enter on your keyboard. And remember that only the panelists will see those messages. Before officially transitioning to the q and a portion of the night, I wanna remind everyone that nothing said on this webinar is legal advice and you should always seek the advice of a licensed mesothelioma attorney. I can't stress that enough. I see we have a lot of questions piling, so I will keep us moving along with our first question of the night. Joe, when should I start the process of choosing Affirm in my timeline of undergoing diagnostic tests and treatment? Again and, I mean, obviously, we touched on this, in the earlier part of the webinar. The answer is as soon as possible. And if you haven't started, I would recommend that you start now. I can't stress this enough. Your treatments can be very, very debilitating. At some point, you're going to lose energy, and you're not gonna wanna focus on this. And even worse, sometimes, even if you do wanna focus on it, you can't because your treatments are affecting your ability to remember how you were exposed, the job sites you worked at. So get going as soon as possible. And if you have a a you know, a need to find an attorney, call us up here. We can put you in touch with some some qualified people. And then, certainly, you don't wanna wait beyond a year from the time that you were that you were diagnosed. I don't know know what state you live in, but statute of limitations at that point starts to come into play. So keep that in the back of your mind as well. Alright. Our next question here is kind of a two parter. It says, since my suspected exposure took place in the sixties or seventies, it's hard to remember details. How specific do I need to be in a deposition, and what is the best way for me to talk about what I do remember? My answer to that is be as specific as you can. But whatever you do, do not try to come up with things unless you remember clearly. So as specific as possible, but don't just assume things and start kind of trying to to piece it together unless you remember correctly. I think a very, very, acceptable answer to a question that says, hey. Frankly, I don't remember. I don't I don't remember. Talk to your lawyer, though, however, because, again, through the product identification tools we talked about, through their databases, they can help you. They may be able to jog your number and help you remember how you were exposed. You know, and, again, sometimes you might not have been directly exposed. It might have been through a family member, through, you know, somebody that you used to know. You might have got a secondary exposure to talk to your attorneys, and they'll help you sometimes remember a lot about your exposure. But, as specific as you can without making things up is really the way to go. Great. This next question is relevant to a wrongful death claim. It says, what needs to be mentioned in a will or planned ahead of time to ensure the case is transferred properly if the patient dies? Well, typically, from my understanding and you're gonna this is really not, a question for a mesothelioma attorney attorney. This may be a a question for an estates and trust or a probate attorney or something like that. But, typically, you don't necessarily need to mention in your will, hey. Look. In the event that I pass away, during the pendency of my claim, I want this to go to my state. Typically, your state would would would be set up in some way. And even if you die intestate, that means without a will. The laws of your state will kind of dictate how the assets kind of fall and they become a a a a piece of the estate, and the estate representative will take the case from there. So I don't think you need to say in a will, look. I want, you know, my case to go, to my estate. That should naturally happen. That much being said, obviously, in your will, if you've got one, you are going to wanna to to dictate, you know, who's getting what. That's what really your your will is gonna is going to to direct kinda where your money is going. So to the extent that that's an important thing for you and, obviously, if you have the will it is, you can say, look. I want it to go to my kids or I want it to go to my wife or I want it to go, you know, to to my church, whatever the case may be. You can dictate all that in your will, but you don't necessarily need to say, hey. Look. I want my case to become a piece of my state. That should naturally happen. Again, on this particular question, however, I recommend just for certainty that you find, in the states of trust attorney, probate attorney to answer that more directly. Awesome. Thank you for that answer. The next person says, I was diagnosed with malignant mesothelioma. I have a law firm specializing in mesothelioma representing me. I have a docket date of December sixth of this year. Can you explain what happens during this process? Right. Typically, what's gonna happen is this is going to be kinda like the kicking off of the trial process. And now, you may have, your depositions coming up, some some some firm court dates coming up, that kind of stuff. Your attorney can walk you through what the what the dates are and what's going to be the next steps in line. But, really, once you get on a docket, it means your case is kinda in the system, and now you are on the clock typically moving towards trial. And, again, you don't need to definitively go to trial. That doesn't have to happen. But now you are on the clock with the court as kind of being in line and working towards a potential trial if ultimately that is what happens. Speaking of going to trial, the next question says, if the case does go to trial, does the patient need to attend? You may need to attend. You may need to attend. There there are some situations where you can where you can appear via video, but you may need to, attend in person. Every court, frankly, has its own rules, and it doesn't even necessarily have to be different by state. It can be, you know, by various courts within a given state. So you may need to attend. That's a question for your attorney. This next question is kind of a scary thought. They ask, what can I do if I've already signed with an attorney and they're not helping me? There's, a few things that you can you can do there. Hopefully, if you've signed up with an attorney, you're not so far down the road, that you're kinda locked in with them. But a lot of times, what can happen is if you're not happy with them, you can you can actually terminate them. You know, you send a a certified letter saying, hey. Look. I don't wanna go with you. I wanna go with, you know, a different attorney. I'm terminating you. And a lot of times, assuming there hasn't been a lot of filings, and a lot of pleadings, you can actually change, some of those things with a new attorney. A new a new attorney may be able to add different elements of your case. Sometimes they'll be stuck with what the prior attorney did, but not always. And sometimes the prior attorney will have a lien, meaning that they will be able to recover something, to pay them back for the work that they've done, but you're not always stuck. Again, you can you can terminate your attorney. Hopefully, it's earlier in the process. Again, I don't know how far, this particular person is in the process, but, hopefully, it's earlier. And then not a whole lot of work has been done in the case salvageable. But, yeah, just send just send a certified letter saying, hey. Look. Don't wanna work with you. And, typically, you can get out that way. That's good to know that it's possible. Alright. Our next question. Will an attorney be able to give an estimate of how much you'll likely be able to receive in total compensation? We touched on this a bit earlier. They may be able to after they have started to kind of really dig in on your case. Again, once somebody starts working on, working up your case, they know who the potential defendants are, they know the level of exposure that you've got, They may be able to give you some sort of a ballpark estimate. It's not gonna be definitive by any stretch of the imagination, But they may be able to give you a general idea. But, again and I can't stress this strongly enough. If somebody comes out of the gate with big promises and says, hey. Look. You know? You're gonna get millions of dollars that much I guarantee you, and they've just sat down with you and they just met you. You. They're really probably just trying to induce you into signing a contract with them, and that it should be blinking red lights. That should be red flags all over the place. My my recommendation in that situation is send the pack in, close the door behind them, call up asbestos dot com, talk to one of the patient advocates here, and they'll steer you in the right direction. Yep. Alright. Next question. Will health insurance companies try to take some of the settlement money? The insurance companies typically won't. However, there are some lien rights, for instance, the the the VA. If you were treated at the VA, they may have lien rights. Medicare Medicare has some lien rights. So, typically, the insurance companies won't, but you might have, some other things that that have lien rights against your case. That much being said, even if they can lien the recovery, typically, the recovery far outpaces far outpaces the amount that they would be able to lean against your recovery. And secondly, good attorneys will often negotiate with whoever the lienholder is to reduce the amount of lien even further. So let's just say, you know, Medicare had a you know, they they were able to to lien twenty five percent of your recovery, for example. A good attorney may may be able to get on the phone with them and say, hey. Look. You know? So and so is very sick. You know? Can we pay you ten percent? Can we pay you five percent? And, typically, they'll they'll negotiate that, and it can be settled in that way. So don't let the liens that exist and, again, they're not ubiquitous. You can't always get them, but don't let the liens dissuade you from going forward. Yep. Good to know. Alright. This next one is definitely a question we got a lot. Why is there a time limit to file a claim? We didn't know there was a deadline when the patient was diagnosed, but now it's too late. Yeah. This is really something that is just so terribly unfortunate for people with mesothelioma, but and this isn't gonna make anyone happy. It's really a public policy art. What happens is the states say, hey. Look. You know? After a certain amount of years, frankly, the strength of the evidence is just not there. It's just shaky. So say, you know, you've been you know, you were diagnosed six, seven years ago. You know, do you really remember how you were exposed? Do you do you are the documents that you have really that good? So it's just a public policy argument saying that after a certain amount of time, the evidence that you could possibly come up with is not going to be strong enough. Consequently, we we don't want to be able to to allow people to for, you know, add infinite for infinity constantly claim, we've gotta say, look. We're drawing a line in the sand. You've got x amount of time. I know that that doesn't make people happy, but that's the rule. And it doesn't just apply to mesothelinium. It applies to everything. Statue of limitations for for just about everything. I think the only thing I can think of off the top of my head where there is no statute of limitation in a lot of cases is murder. But everything else, typically, there is a statute of limitations. Gotcha. This next question kinda hits home as a nurse. A lot of family members definitely wanna take care of their sick family members and and take care of things for them. So this person asks, I don't want my sick father to be bothered by attorneys. Can I handle most of the legal process? Absolutely. Really, I can't answer it answer it answer it any more directly than that. Absolutely, you can handle the majority of it. Your father will probably need to do some things with you. Obviously, he is the source of information for the exposure. Doesn't have to be bothered by the attorneys. The attorney's office can work through you. We deal with this obviously a lot. I'd say probably the majority of the people that call into to asbestos dot com to mesothelioma center, are not the patient. They're usually the children of the patient, the spouse of the patient, the grandchildren, of the patient. So, they're trying to protect their loved one who is very, very ill. Again, the attorneys understand this. They will work, extensively through people, and make it as easy and noninvasive as possible, for for the person who's sick and and and, frankly, oftentimes, very, very tired and doesn't just have the wherewithal to to deal with the attorneys. Got it. That's awesome to hear. Thank you. And, our last question for the night, Joe. If someone has a question that they didn't get to ask tonight, how should they get in touch with you? Right. You can email me. My email is here. I'm happy to to respond to emails, and that's really the best way to contact me. And, and if you've got medical questions, obviously, you know, Sean's a registered nurse, and you can you can see his email address there as well. But understand that I am not the only person here that is qualified to answer many of your questions. Most of your questions can be answered by patient advocates, and our number is on the website asbestos dot com. You can call up, talk to any of the patient advocates. If it's a specific legal question, obviously, you wanna direct that to me. I'm the lawyer on staff here, but they have a wealth of knowledge. And we've got not just Sean, obviously, but we've got, Karen Saldi, who's a nurse here. We've got. She's a doctor. Erin Muns, who's our our VA expert. Danielle DiPietro helps him out. We've got a lot of people here that know a ton, and we'll be able to answer ninety nine point nine percent of your questions. That point, you know, one percent, If you need, I'm available as well. That's great. Thanks to everyone who joined us tonight. A huge thank you to Joe Lahav for sharing his insight this evening. In addition to the contact information you see on the screen, you're also welcome to respond to any of the emails we've sent out leading up to tonight's webinar. If you called in this evening, we'll share Joe's and my contact information in the follow-up email, which will go out later this week. As I mentioned at the beginning of tonight's event, if you have a specific legal question, we encourage you to speak with a mesothelioma lawyer. And over the next week, you'll receive a couple more emails from us. The first one will contain the recording of the webinar along with related resources, and the second will contain a survey asking for your feedback about tonight's event. And with that, I want to thank you all for attending this evening. And as always, if there is anything we can do to help, don't hesitate to ask. Thank you, everyone. Thanks, Sean. I appreciated it. Thanks. Have a good evening.